Speaking Is a Mindfulness Practice: A Playbook for Becoming a Better Storyteller

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  00:31

Majeed, welcome to the show.

Majeed Mogharreban  00:33

Really excited to do this

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  05:25

Majeed and I have known each other for a long time but to let some of our audience know your I always know you as the expert speaker. I mean, you’ve spoken at all sorts to places the United Nations you’ve been speaking at twice, you’ve worked with politicians, Olympic gold medal winners, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and you’ve worked with over 200 entrepreneurs to make big impacts your your big star on TikTok, you have 1.6 million likes on tick tock, which is amazing. 300,000 followers, done a lot of really, really cool things. And there’s a lot for us to talk about today. But one thing that I did want to start with is you remember, early in your career, like the first time that you started to manage or lead a team, what were some early mistakes that you could point to?

Majeed Mogharreban  05:40

it was only after hiring, that I realized management is a skill set that I don’t have. I’m good at my public speaking, I’m good at the selling and the marketing. And turns out management is an entirely different skill set. I was hoping that I could hire people who would know what to do when I didn’t even know what to do. One of the ways that I hired initially was I hired based on price I heard about people in the Philippines can work for three $4 an hour. So I hired those people. And they didn’t do a great job. So I thought, Okay, well, maybe I need to hire $20 An hour people and I hired $20 An hour people and, and they didn’t do a great job. And then I’m like, Alright, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go for the big guns. And I found these people, they were for $100 an hour. And I hired those people. And they didn’t do a great job. And obviously, the common denominator. I really didn’t have this management skill set. And so I’d take step back and really actually learn a little bit about who should I actually be hiring and what should I actually be asking them to do? And that started my journey as a manager, you know, within my own company.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  06:52

Yeah, that’s, that’s super awesome. And so what what was the lesson like? What was Was there anything in particular that you remember that you really had to change? In order to get the most out of your team? Is there anything that stands out?

Majeed Mogharreban  07:07

Yeah, well, a lot of things. One is that people are motivated for different reasons. I’m motivated by making money and winning and achieving and turns out, not everybody’s built like me. And so it was, it was interesting to learn the different ways, you know, some people will really feel like details, and they like everything to be done, right. And those people make great bookkeepers, accountants and rule makers and rule followers. There are other people who really want to make sure everyone’s taken care of. So they want to check in how are you feeling? Are you okay? Do you need anything, and those people make great team builders and community builders and HR people, then there’s the people, you give them a target, you give them a script, and they’re just going going for going for the kill, they make great salespeople. So that’s, that’s first thing is that people are motivated differently, and therefore could do probably better in different roles. And then the other thing is delegating processes and outcomes, instead of delegating tasks. So my initial management was like, do this for me. And they would do that for me, then I’d say, do this for me. And they would do that for me. And that’s fine. But that only takes a little bit off. And it’s like very one at a time, every time you have to delegate. Whereas if I could say, the outcome that we’re trying to do is grow our email list. So I want you to measure it once a week. And I want you to come up with a plan to grow our email list, execute that plan, tell me what’s working, what’s not working, and how we can change it on a weekly basis. So that’s a process and an outcome. And that really unlocked a lot of leverage in actually utilizing the people I had hired, instead of like having people who are just waiting for me to assign them a task.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  08:49

Yeah, those are some really, really good lessons. And I can, I can also give a vote of confidence, all of those things, and I think those will help. One of the things that I know that you talk a lot about is this idea of storytelling. Like I think you’re passionate about storytelling, and it is a skill that can be very, very useful for leaders. And so I’d love to just get more of your thoughts around how you think people can become story tellers and, and why is that useful? Do you think for people for leaders today?

Majeed Mogharreban  09:27

Well, leaders are tasked with the challenge of communicating. And great leaders communicate in a way that can inspire people to take action. And typically people will take action because they are moved through emotion. And one of the great ways to stir emotion in others is through vivid stories. So stories, as it turns out, are is a technology for delivering and distributing knowledge. One of the early systems for delivering and distributing knowledge is old religion, lots of great ideas, I’m going to throw it together in a book and each one of these ideas, we’re going to wrap them in a story. And if you watch a person delivering a sermon in a Catholic church, for example, look behind the preacher and you see a panel full of a bunch of pictures, stained glass. And that’s so that they can point and say, you see the story with the little boy and the lamb that the picture with the little boy in the land, let me tell you the story. And each one of those are stories, and each story delivers a piece of knowledge that’s designed to be passed on. So as leaders, we get to pass on knowledge, we get to communicate information. And when we want to be effective, the effect we want to create is we want to get people to move. So I’ll tell you the story of a famous story. Once there was a company called Nokia, they dominated the cell phone market, everybody had Nokia, until Dun dun dun, Apple comes in with their big old iPhone and their big old screen and their one little button and little pinch and zoom. And Nokia was scared in their little pants. So what did the CEO of Nokia do? He wrote a full company wide memo, half of which was a story about a guy on an oil rig. The story about the guy on oil rig goes like this. It says once there was a man on an oil rig deep out in the sea, sleeping away in his cabin when he heard an explosion boom. And he opened up the door of his cabinet. And he saw that the oil rig that he’s on out in the middle of sea was bursting into flames. And the flames were close approaching him. If he stood where he stands, he would certainly burn to a crisp and die. And he looked over the edge of the oil rig, it must have been 100 feet down to the water. The water was icy cold, the waves were choppy, surely there’s sharks in that water. But if he stands where he is, he’s definitely going to burn alive. So what’s he going to do? Is he going to stay where he is? Or is he going to jump off the cliff. So this has been a famous story that is now called the burning platform story. So you think about a CEO of a multinational company is very precise with his words, he’s going to write an email or a letter or whatever it is, at that time, out to every single staff member, he decides to talk about some oil rig fisherman guy in the middle of the ocean, about to catch on fire, to make a point. And the point is for the company, if we don’t metaphorically jump off of this platform that we’re on right now and stay here, we’re gonna burn alive. And that makes the point it’s very vivid. It’s very visceral. So now you can imagine yourself as a man on oil rig looking at a flame coming at you or you’re jumping into what seems to be scary, but apparently the only way you’re going to survive. And that’s how we communicate the idea through story.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  12:58

I mean, it’s a great example. And what’s nice about stories is like you said they’re also viral, right? People can pass them on, they can refer to them. And it’s it’s visual, so people can remember it in that way. Is this also a skill that in your opinion is useful for say you’re you’re just your first line manager, you have a team of five people do stories and storytelling? Are they also useful for day to day? Kind of like everyday management? Or is it only the sort of thing that you use some of the time in very specific circumstances?

Majeed Mogharreban  13:35

Well, stories helped you become understood. And effective communication is the root cause of a lot of inefficiencies in an organization. It’s the root cause of a lot of interpersonal challenges. And so being understood is important. One of the ways we try to be understood is we use metaphors. Metaphors are a way of taking something that you already understand and explaining it to something that you’re trying to figure out. Like, for example, if I say to you cashflow in a business is sort of like gasoline in a car, you need to fill it with gas to make it go where you want to go. So we understand what a car is and what gases you put it into ghost. Okay, so that’s what a business thinks it needs cash to go where it needs to go, Oh, now I understand. We took a metaphor to explain. You can use the same idea to tell a story. So if you say, you know if the idea you’re trying to communicate is a business needs cash to survive. Then you could tell a story of a business that ran out of cash had a great product had a great team customers loved it, but it ran out of cash couldn’t pay the bills. One day, the the sheriff came and put a lock on the door and said your company’s being repossessed because you haven’t paid your bills in three months and the company shut down. The CEO was a smart CEO. The staff was dedicated. They had the best product but they ran out of cash and the business closed. Now we’re telling that story Are you deliver the points, a business needs cash to get where it’s going or a business’s cash to survive. But now you can actually see the sheriff with the with the lock and the key on the door. And you can feel the emotion of like, Oh man, that business closed. So stories are vivid, they’re memorable. In fact, I’ll tell you another story. There I was architecture camp in high school, I must have been 14 years old at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, Illinois, SIU go Salukis. And this architecture teacher with a big Santa Claus beard, and a big, long white hair a little off little crazy, like any good architect. And he describes pi, and he says pi is 3.1415926535897. And he keeps on writing it out. And then he takes the peak a piece of chalk, and he throws it at the White let the chalkboard and he says pie is not real. And I am like a scared little 14 year old. And then he smiles and he laughs a little bit. And he says, Now, you’ll never forget, that pie is not real. And I was like, geez, dude, you didn’t have to scare me like that. But come on. And he’s right. I was 14 years old. And he created an emotional spike in that moment. And I never forgot it. And we can do the same with stories. So if you want to be understood, tell stories if you want to be unforgettable, tell stories.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  16:27

This is I mean, this is some of the stuff that you you coach people on. But if someone wanted to get better at storytelling, what might you suggest that they do?

Majeed Mogharreban  16:38

Okay, so when someone has an idea they want to communicate? I’ll ask them. What was the moment that you knew that was true? Where were you? Exactly? And were you sitting or standing? And that last part sitting or standing? They realize like, Oh, you’re for real? Like you’re talking about the moment? The moment? Because I’m not talking about a period of your life I’m talking about Yeah, I remember. And they remember immediately. Yeah, I remember I was in my office. It was Friday, I remember, we had our everywhere, everyone had already gone close. It was six o’clock, I was working late. The lights were the lights were off, and my screen was glowing. And then I saw this video come on my screen. And that’s when I knew. So now we’re painting the scene. We’re seeing it, it’s visual. I say it, let’s get more sensational. What did it smell like? What did it feel like? What were the sounds in the room? Okay. Then anytime we’re talking about interactions with people instead of saying, you know, and then she told me she was really tired. She’s you say, she looked at me, she looked me right in the eye. And she said, I am so tired. So instead of explaining the scene, it’s like reenacting the scene. So bring us into the moment, let us hear the conversation so that we can feel what it was like to be there. So that’s the purpose of the story is let us feel it. Let us see it brings us right into the moment. So if someone has an idea they want to communicate, I’ll ask what’s the story that proves that true?

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  18:08

I think what you said, which was, rather than explaining the scenario, you’re reenacting? What actually happened really, really brings it home, I think I think that’s pretty awesome. So in your work in coaching teams, and coaching entrepreneurs, one of the things that I know you care a lot about is what the the mission is. And I think this also goes back to storytelling. And maybe you can use elements of storytelling around this. But I think for a lot of organizations, maybe the CEO, maybe the head of the organization, the manager of the team, maybe they don’t do as much in communicating what the mission is. Maybe they think that oh, people people know I told them on on day one. And I’d love for you to share, like what you’ve learned about why a mission is important, how it should be communicated, and any sort of best practices that you would recommend.

Majeed Mogharreban  19:03

So a well articulated mission that everybody knows and they can recite, creates culture, cultural alignment, better decisions, and faster decisions. The Ritz Carlton has all of their employees and name badge. And on the back of their name badge has the Ritz Carlton motto for all employees, and they say it out loud in unison at the beginning. And end of every shift. The motto is we are ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. What does that mean? That means our guests, our people to be valued, and we value ourselves very much too. So when we ask, you know, what should I do in this situation or that situation, we’re guided by certain mission statement now There was a very important decision made by the Bayer company in the 1990s. In the 1990s, there was some crazy person poisoning Tylenol bottles. And people were paid taking these poisoned Tylenol bottles and dying. It was the great Tylenol bottle poisoned scandal. So the people of Bayer at the Bayer company held an emergency meeting of the Board of Directors and they met for a famous total of 20 minutes. It was famous because they had a very, very big decision to make. And they made it very quickly. They were presented with three options. Option number one is educate the stores and pharmacies on how to detect tampering on the bottles, and remove tampered bottles from the shelves, this would be the least costly and least amount of PR, it was already on the news, the Tylenol bottles are dangerous beware. Option number two is educate the consumer, how to detect if it’s been tampered with, so that everybody knows what to do to see if the seal has been broken, etcetera. Option number three was the safest and the most expensive. And option number three was destroy every single bottle of Tylenol that exists. And we’re we’re making new ones that are tamper proof period. They chose option number three most expensive, most certainly. And one of the boards of directors the member was interviewed. How did you come to that decision so quickly. And he says we have a statute at our world headquarters and chiseled in stone on this statute, it says customers first, employees second, shareholders third. And that made the decision easy. So because he knew that statement, whether that’s their official mission statement, or value statement or whatever, that’s a guiding principle of the organization. Now that story is probably legend within the organization. So when a complaint comes in from a store that carries a better product, or when when a feedback comes in from a client that use the Bayer product. How do we make decisions? Well, customers first, employees second, shareholders third. And so those those guiding values and principles, help make decisions faster, help make better decisions, and create cultural alignment and culture I define as the way we do things around here.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  22:33

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Majeed Mogharreban  24:59

well look for examples of the values and turn those into legends that are told, you know, I gave you the the Bayer What should we do with the Tylenol thing? I’ll tell you another one about Zappos, the shoe company Zappos the shoe company was famous for it’s out of this world customer service, companies would come and take tours of their call center to just learn how they’re doing it. And these people are so happy. It was a call center for buying shoes, later acquired by Amazon started by Tony Shea wrote a book called Delivering Happiness. And one of the stories is a woman calls the 800 number, you’re making a phone call to a call center to order shoes. Okay. And this woman says, I was just watching this movie. And this lady in this movie has a killer pair of shoes and I want to purchase like it. Now most call centers will say, tell me the order number. Oh, you don’t know the order number I can’t help you. Most call centers are measured by what are the fewest number of minutes or seconds, you can get off the phone to get on to the next call. But this person famously took two and a half hours. They went online and they downloaded the movie. And they said let’s watch the movie together from the beginning, we’re going to find the scene with the lady there. 45 minutes in they’re like, Oh, that’s it. Okay, red high heels. Let’s zoom in. Let’s figure this out. And they start looking at different shoes together. And they finally buy get the right shoes, and they get it and they’re like, Listen, no mission too small, we’re finding the shoes where you whatever you need, we’re getting it. And when you tell that story. Now someone who works at Zappos knows, it’s not my job to get off the phone as quickly as possible. It’s my job to blow their mind with next level service that they’re going to talk about for years. And now we can point to his scenarios like that. If we’re trying to create a Zappos like level of customer service, I’ve just used a shorthand saying examples like now you know what that means? It means like, be ridiculous in your pursuit of customer satisfaction, even if we’re going to lose money as a company. Right? They probably didn’t profit on that particular sale. But it’s not legend. So, back to your question. You know, you could do the thing where you get the big poster, and it’s plastered across the company floor, that’s fine. It’s on the website. That’s fine. Yeah, if people can say it, and memorize and recite it, that’s definitely better than I have no idea what our values are, what our mission is. But the reason why values and mission statements can be the butt of a joke, is because sometimes it’s a scenario where, hey, listen, our website says we care about family. But these employees, when they want to take time off to go watch their kids recital, the boss said, You can’t do that we got a deadline. So the website says one thing, but the reality of the way we actually do things is different. So, you know, if I was a manager wanting to create alignment to the mission and values, I would make sure that I know it, I make sure that I am embodying it myself. And then look for examples of when it is happening, and point them out, demonstrate them and celebrate them. So that people are aware of it. I think repetition is part of it. I think storytelling is part of it. And when it’s not in alignment, the manager, it’s their responsibility to say our values, say one thing, but we’re doing things differently. And I need to speak up about that.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  28:41

I think you’re right. The one is obviously you have to embody it and live them and when something in the company happens, and it exemplifies one of these values, it’s important to talk about it. And if there’s ever an extreme case, like the one you set in everybody has these extreme cases that happens. It’s almost making sure that it’s documented. I mean, documented talked about, you know, maybe it becomes part of the onboarding process, where you talk about certain stories or things that matter. Maybe it’s remembered at town halls, or at you know, annual retreats, and people are recognized for these sorts of things. But, yeah, all of this well, you know, other than the alignments, the taking examples and turning them into Legends, I really liked that concept and tying that in with storytelling. And if you can visualize it too, and you do a good job of reenacting the moments where that value is lived, then that’s definitely much more of a homerun there, too.

Majeed Mogharreban  29:41

I’ll share with you two quick examples. And I’m a big fan of Apple. Apple gets a significant portion of my income every year because I have to buy all the new latest and greatest stuff. And of course, I love Steve Jobs. I love Steve Jobs. And so one of the things is they built this apple to E and he had all of his engineers sign An autograph the inside of the case. And he said, nobody’s ever going to see the inside of the case. But we’re going to see the inside of the case. And he talked about how he wanted the circuit board to look like a work of arts. And even though most people never see the circuit board, he wanted to be like a work of art. So this tells me like he takes such pride in the design of this company, or this design this product, they’re signing it like artists. And then the other legend, or the other story is, Steve Jobs famously said, when these packages were wrapped in Saran Wrap, and there was a little bit of bubble and a little bit of a crease, he said, send it back, even the saran wrap needs to look pristine. So what does that communicate about the values of the company? Beauty, design, artistry, perfection, just absolute highest possible level of quality? And then that informs what how you make decisions.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  31:01

It’s very interesting. It also reminds me of the story at Amazon where they had famously doors that they bought from some Home Hardware, Home Depot, some some store like that, and they use that as desks because it was cheaper and they wanted to pass on the savings to customers. And so yes, stories like this do an incredible, incredible job. One of the other things I wanted to make sure I chatted with you about is, again, like you really care about communicating ideas effectively. And you do a really good job at this on on tick tock for anyone who doesn’t follow you. What is your what is your handle on tick tock, expert speaker. Okay, easy enough. So everybody should, you know, grab their phones and follow you on Tik Tok if they’re not already. But one of my my favorite stories that you’ve posted on Tik Tok is just talking about different communication styles. And like how it can make a difference. And I think this is something that you definitely embody, I remember us having this chat about how you are very passionate about certain words and how they can trigger you in different ways. But yeah, maybe let’s let’s let’s start with that, which is, how should people communicate? Because words are everything right? The way you say something can make all the difference?

Majeed Mogharreban  32:23

Well, I’m going to point out that you said the word should and should is an expression of other people’s values. So if you say I should communicate a certain way, well, who says you should someone else? So the first thing I’ll say is that speaking, can be a mindfulness practice. Because you can speak very unconsciously. But when you’re choosing every word intentionally a little bit slower, a little bit thinking about how do you want to say the word take a breath before you speak? And notice, I look for language that takes responsibility versus language like, like it’s a victim. Like if you say, Man, I wish I wish I could I wish I could start a podcast, but I don’t have time. How about I would love to start a podcast and I’m focusing my energies in other places that it’s not my top priority right now. I’ll always correct someone who says I don’t have time. Because yes, you do. And you’re choosing to invest your time in other ways. If someone ever says I have to, I say, No, you don’t. You choose to or you get to, I have to pick my kids up at three o’clock. If I’m not there at school. It’s a problem. But I choose to pick up my kids at three o’clock and I get to pick up my kids at three o’clock and the vibe changes on each level have to I’m a victim choose to I’m in control get to I’m in gratitude. So, and I have a whole series of this on tick tock called magic words. And each one of them are language replacements, language replacements around time. I don’t say the word unfortunately, I say the word as it turns out, if I had to reschedule our podcasts, I wouldn’t say Oh, eight and unfortunately, I have to reschedule our podcasts, I’d say eight. And as it turns out, I have another commitment. And I propose this other time. I don’t use the word but or the fancy version of but which is however, because but cancels out the first statement, if I said eight, and I really liked you, I think you’re really smart. But she is that’s not that’s not very nice. If I’m trying to say it, and I really liked you, but when you’re late to meetings, it pisses me off. I’m gonna say Aiden, I really like you. And I love when you show on time to meetings. And sometimes you’re showing up after our start time and I feel upset about it. And instead of but so practicing conscious word choice as a mindfulness practice, and continue to upgrade simply by asking how can I say this more effectively? How can I say this in a way that’s takes responsibility? You make me feel does not take responsibility. I feel this His way when this thing happens is a way of saying it. And only it.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  35:04

This is the first time I’ve, I’ve heard, the phrase that speaking can be a mindfulness practice. But as you said it where you’re deliberately choosing every single word, and going a bit slower, it almost feels more worthwhile to listen to, as well. It feels like you said that you’re, it’s a very active practice, and you’re not, you know, you’re not being a victim of your words, you’re controlling those words, and really communicating what there is. But these subtle changes, I think, like what I really want to emphasize for everybody listening in, is what I love about the way Majeed does this is, these little words can make all the difference, right? It’s, this is how you rally the troops. This is how you get them behind a mission. And it’s just like the practice of being able to, say cancel out certain words from your vocabulary, or choosing to use different phrasing. This can be the difference between, you know, someone that gets their team to perform at the highest levels versus, you know, someone who does not. And so yeah, I think this stuff is super, super important. One thing that I did want to ask you about is, and it goes back to the story that you shared, when you first started, which was, you learned that you had to understand what mattered to each person how you were different from others. And so you really had to understand who you were talking to. And, you know, given that you speak to lots of audiences, what have you learned about taking your message and changing it potentially, when speaking to different audiences? Or how do you think about like, when you’re about to go approach an audience? What things do you tell yourself to prepare to be able to communicate with them effectively?

Majeed Mogharreban  36:53

Well, I acknowledge that there are different learning styles. There are auditory learners, visual learners, and kinesthetic learners, audience auditory learners here, visual learners see, and kinesthetic learners want to feel it and touch it. And so I then assume that all three styles are in the audience, everyone has a little bit of each of the style kinesthetic is the most rare, visual is the most common. But if I’m going to put something on a screen, like a PowerPoints, and like a diagram, visualize it, or I’ll use language. And I’ll say, let me show you how this works. Look, so you can see how it works. That’s visual, visual visual. Let me tell you how this works. That’s an auditory. Listen, this is how it works. That’s an auditory command. And kinesthetic, I’ll make lists by touching my fingers. I’ll touch the wall and touch the diagram. I’ll say this is how it feels. And I feel like this way because kinesthetic is feeling. So I acknowledge that all three learning styles are in my audience. And I’m also acknowledging my own bias. I’m heavily biased towards visual myself, right? I’m like, I can’t just show me, the hardest thing for me is to read a lot of words on a page, like a book, like we were talking before the press record, that you and I have been recommended a book, I haven’t cracked it open. But as soon as you said, it’s on Audible, boom, I can do that. I can hear it. And I can process auditory way better than concentrating on a book. But there are some people who can’t hear an audible audio book, they need to read it. So some people like to come to a meeting ahead of time, having read the agenda, having read the briefing notes, they even like to go through the slides. So they’re like, really prepared. I’m like, show up one minute before, what are we doing today? That’s my style, and no judgment either way, but acknowledging that different styles exist in your audience are important. Then preparing strategically by saying what do I want my audience to feel what I want my audience to know. And what do I want my audience to do? Is the three questions I help anybody prepare message, feel no do what we want them to feel, what are we going to know? And what do we want them to do? Feelings we can create their story know is we can have some points that we want to make and do. That’s our call to action. So if we want people to reply to the email, or if we want people to sign up for the event, or if we want people to, from now on always do the policy this way. That’s what we want them to do. So clarifying the outcomes that we want feel know do. Understanding the different learning styles and communicating and communicating so that we’re meeting all the different styles of learning whether it’s reading or diagrams or having a an exercise where people can touch and feel stuff. There’s some considerations.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  39:41

Yeah, that’s very comprehensive in it. And it is really cool. That and this is the thing that I want to point out for the audience that like you actually make sure that going into any sort of communication event where there’s a lot of people and again, these are the most expensive communication events. If you have people synchronously and a lot of them, and you have one opportunity to deliver a message or a story, it’s very important. It’s a big investment. And so it’s really cool to hear how much effort you put into understanding who’s in the audience, how they communicate, and how you need to make sure that your message gets across. So this is the level of effort. And this is one of the things that I wanted to make sure I share with everybody. I mean, this has been amazing. We’ve talked about so many different topics, lots of great stories and examples that we’ve chatted about. thing that I did want to make sure to point out is, you have a book is called expert speaker. And I wanted to recommend that everybody in the audience pick it up. But to give this short synopsis, who should read this book? And what can it help them do? The book is written

Majeed Mogharreban  40:52

for entrepreneurs who want to grow their business by generating sales through public speaking, leaders who don’t have a business. Leadership is entrepreneurship within an organization, because it’s mastering communication and psychology to get people to do what needs to get done. So that’s the lens that you can read it through anyone who has presentations regularly, who want those presentations to be effective in the sense of getting people to do something after the presentation. This gives us step by step formula on what goes in a speech like that and how to be as effective as you can be in your presentation.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  41:27

Awesome. And so, you know, we talked about your your Tiktok, which is expert speaker, are there any other ways that people can get in touch with you of their platforms, your website,

Majeed Mogharreban  41:39

so I’ll recommend anybody interested in my book, you can get it on Amazon. It’s called expert speaker five steps to grow your business with public speaking, but you can also get it for free as a PDF instantly at expert speaker book.com. So expert speaker book.com I’ll also invite people to check out my nine minute TED talk called how leaders tell stories. So if you go to YouTube, and type in how leaders tell stories, Majeed, ma J. Ed, you should find it. And I look at how Steve Jobs and Martin Luther King, and effective managers and CEOs use the same formula for storytelling. You’ll enjoy that TED Talk nine minutes how leaders tell stories. And finally, I would love to offer a keynote speech. If your company is looking to learn magic words for effective communication in sales leadership management, I will do a keynote speech at your conference or webinar, I’m happy to come in and do a presentation so that people can walk away with little phrases that are going to make them more effective as leaders and sales professionals. You can contact me my email address Majeed at expert speaker.com. That’s ma J. E D at expert speaker.com. Awesome.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  42:57

And so we will of course, include all of those things in the shownotes and Majeed. Before we say goodbye, I The final question we like to ask all the guests on the show is for all the managers and leaders constantly looking to get better at their craft. Are there any final tips, tricks, parting words of wisdom that you would leave them with?

Majeed Mogharreban  43:19

Yes, leadership starts with self leadership. If you can’t get yourself to an appointment on time, you’re not fit to lead. Do what you said you would do. That’s integrity. lead yourself and the people will follow.

Aydin Mirzaee (Fellow.app)  43:34

That’s great advice and great place to end it. But gee, thanks so much for doing this.

Majeed Mogharreban  43:40

My pleasure. Thank you.